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View Full Version : Sailing will continue to die until we target the lower income brackets.



Shife
11-29-2010, 10:27 AM
Yep. I said it. It's time for sailing community to stop perpetuating the stereotypical Biff and Muffy upper class bullshit and start targeting the other 90% of the population.

The first step is getting clubs to actually get involved with their community and try to grow the sport at ALL levels, not just the uber money travel opti and laser regattas. I live just a few miles from a private club that insists on perpetuating the "ahoy paloy" perception of sailing. They do not open their doors to the local schools to promote sailing. This club is owned by a well known AC player. It baffles me that they continue to operate in this fashion. They could be a huge force in promoting sailing to youth in an area where you can't drive a mile without running into a lake. Can't have that though.... might have to share the locker room with the son a plumber instead of the son of the guy who owns the plumbing company. Just to race a boat in their local series the owner has to be a member of the club. They have no reciprocity with other clubs, so you are forced to buy in if you want to race. Yeah, that'll grow the sport.

My own club is not innocent. Both the junior and adult sailing programs we offer are very reasonable, but probably out of the reach of your average middle class family and definitely not an option for the lower class. Exclusivity is deliberately maintained with the structure of the membership levels, and our club is one of the most reasonable in the area.

I guess I've just gotten annoyed with people looking at me like I have three heads when I tell them I race sailboats. Nearly everyone outside of this sport views it as an exclusive hobby for the rich and for the most part they're right. Donating a few bucks now and then or giving a few disadvantaged kids a ride once/yr isn't going to cut it. This sport is fucked if we don't change our image. I know there's plenty of people who don't want to hear that, but too bad.

discuss..

Ballard Sailor
11-29-2010, 10:34 AM
The problem has always been there, its the solution that is elusive. What can a yacht club do to help out is the question.

Photoboy
11-29-2010, 11:39 AM
There are plenty of programs to introduce the masses to sailing. After sitting in way too many "Sailing Renassaince" meetings we finally convinced the powers at be to create this:

http://www.gosailingsf.org/

Which is great, but you still have to deliver to the masses...

So we created this:

http://www.gosailingsf.org/celebritymediaregatta.html

Which worked out pretty damn well, however for the media reps to get involved and endorse it,
they need a charity of some sort to rally behind...we pitched it to the Luekemia folks but they did not want to expend any energy into it, but requested we send them out media contacts anyways...

We are now looking at working with the Sarcoma Cup folks...hopefully that works out..

Problem is some one has to spend heaps of time coordinating vounteers, donations and resources. Talk is cheap, and I found out many of the yeah "great idea folk" disappear into the wood work when
time comes to put any time, energy or money into it...even sailors, burned out from too hectic of a regatta schedule find it easy to say, naw, too many people sailing already anyways...

However, on the cheap, you CAN build a site like gosailingsf.org for your area, and seek modest donations from local sailing business's to help pay the cost's, and then pimp the programs via the internets and to local organizations and media and hope for the best...

Kris O
11-29-2010, 12:02 PM
Personally I liked the LAT 38 crewlist party when I first moved to SF. Its not for advanced racers or the easily intimidated, but if you are willing to walk up to people and introduce yourself, then its a great way to get hooked up with people who want to go sailing. Many many years ago (BI ,before internet) there was a chandlery in Chicago called Chicago Yachting and Navigation that had a crewlist in the store. You just had to walk in and fill out the form. This is how I got into racing. I was called by a boat owner who had a Hunter 30 and the rest is history....in fact MANY of that crew who were all newbies are still racing today and are regular contributors to SA. I am the product of and engineer and a nurse. I am the only one in my family who sails and I started to learn how to sail in my mid-20's.

IOR Geezer
11-29-2010, 01:42 PM
Kame at Pineapple makes a point of taking youth out on certain events. Maybe if there were more regattas designated to bring out kids or virgin sailors that would help?

aA
11-29-2010, 01:52 PM
the junior program i coach is open to anyone, membership of the club is encouraged but not required. boats and storage are available at a discounted rate and a 16 week winter program costs $150 not including hot meals (which are $5 per day). i have noticed many kids from different walks of life joining the program


they are out there in some places, just not enough

war dog
11-29-2010, 02:11 PM
Kame at Pineapple makes a point of taking youth out on certain events. Maybe if there were more regattas designated to bring out kids or virgin sailors that would help?

I few of us were discussing this at the YRA awards meeting and one idea that came up was to give a credit to boats with new sailors or kids on board. I could see this working around some of the “Fun” races and possibly a beer can series. I see it working something like this bring a novice but able body adult (say less than 6 races) get a 3 second phrf credit then 6-10 race experience a 2 second credit a kid under 14 same experience brackets but a 4 and 3 credit……………well some thing like that it would have to be self policing I but could see it working on the right races.

BobJ
11-29-2010, 03:23 PM
The local crew lists are filled with novices wanting to sail. In my experience most of them are looking for a pleasant afternoon boat ride and aren't interested in any kind of commitment. No harm adding to that group but it's a huge transition from there to buying and maintaining your own boat, let alone racing it competitively. It's also a big transition from there to being an effective member of a winning racing crew.

Yet that's what we need - more competitive boats on the line, with effective crews committed to their teams/programs. Speaking as an owner, it's insane to put thousands into bottom jobs, good sails, etc. when there are maybe two or three other competitive boats in your division. I gave up about eight years ago and started racing shorthanded (mostly singlehanded). The shorthanded fleets seem to be growing so I think my experience isn't unique.

Shife
11-29-2010, 03:31 PM
I think if we properly market small boat and dinghy programs as something that can be done at the same cost of playing soccer or hockey the big boat stuff will follow.

BobJ
11-29-2010, 03:37 PM
We have several good, inexpensive community sailing programs here plus lots of sailing school graduates (as stated in their crew list profiles), yet the big boat stuff is dying. The transition isn't happening. It takes a commitment that most aren't willing to make.

Ballard Sailor
11-29-2010, 03:44 PM
I remember getting into sailing because my dad took the time to build me a sailboat and shove me off so he could have some time alone. There doesn't seem to be a race what you brung or build your own fleet for kids any longer. They gotta buy an expensive Opti and such to join in. Would starting a build your own OD class help bring more kids in from different walks of life, and they will evolve into owners later? Possibly their parents would get into a cal 20, etc....

I never would have learned sailing if my parents had been forced to get me an Opti or lazer in order to race. I wonder if others are running into this problem????

Photoboy
11-29-2010, 03:56 PM
We discussed this as well at the SR meetings.

Need to bring "cool" back into the picture with the youth today...you are competing with everything from video games, to X games, all of which are saturating the current generation to tears....

The videos being produced by the extreme 40's and the demos BMWO are starting to get it. Fast, exciting action with lots of crashes will get the youth attention, hopefully the AC 45s then the 72's get
the programs pushed into the mainstream...As I told the crowd at the SR meetings, you can't preach to the choir, you have to reach outside the box...

EVK4
11-29-2010, 04:21 PM
Everyone wants lots of crashes in their videos. People watch NASCAR on TV because of the crashes they certainly don't get into auto racing. The first time Junior shows Mom a YouTube video with an AC45 crashing at speed is the last time Junior has a chance to join the sailing team. Who the heck wants to crash?

I know that skateboards and BMX have crashes but those are a lot easier to get into without Mom's permission/help.


We discussed this as well at the SR meetings.

Need to bring "cool" back into the picture with the youth today...you are competing with everything from video games, to X games, all of which are saturating the current generation to tears....

The videos being produced by the extreme 40's and the demos BMWO are starting to get it. Fast, exciting action with lots of crashes will get the youth attention, hopefully the AC 45s then the 72's get
the programs pushed into the mainstream...As I told the crowd at the SR meetings, you can't preach to the choir, you have to reach outside the box...

foreguy
11-29-2010, 04:25 PM
It's thinking like that which led to the Germans bombing of Pearl Harbor!

mjr
11-30-2010, 09:37 AM
if you know anything about what tiger has done for youth urban golf (ie-- the first tee program) you know that larry ellison could write a check for about .001% of his net worth to build and fund 10 urban community sailing centers around the country. this would get thousands of kids in boats, many of which could move on to be instructors and active players. rinse and repeat.

but larry wont do it. he;s too damn greedy.

Photoboy
11-30-2010, 09:59 AM
Everyone wants lots of crashes in their videos. People watch NASCAR on TV because of the crashes they certainly don't get into auto racing. The first time Junior shows Mom a YouTube video with an AC45 crashing at speed is the last time Junior has a chance to join the sailing team. Who the heck wants to crash?

I know that skateboards and BMX have crashes but those are a lot easier to get into without Mom's permission/help.

Maybe I should have said wipe outs instead of crashes? Kids see war/ violence on tv and the movies, then go out and act those things out in make believe/play in the back yard and play grounds. Likewise they see sports heros do amazing feats on the court, playing field or slopes, it generates interest. When kids can get visual of how the top echelon of the sailing community can work in tandem to make their crafts go at amazing speeds, spray flying, crossing with inches to spare, they might just follow the path...They won't walk down to the local dock and hop on an AC 45 and blast off, bu the seeds will be planted...and when they start sharing the cool videos and photo with their friends, it starts a snowball effect...

Shife
11-30-2010, 10:07 AM
if you know anything about what tiger has done for youth urban golf (ie-- the first tee program) you know that larry ellison could write a check for about .001% of his net worth to build and fund 10 urban community sailing centers around the country. this would get thousands of kids in boats, many of which could move on to be instructors and active players. rinse and repeat.

but larry wont do it. he;s too damn greedy.

And there it is. Just my personal opinion, but I think a big part of the problem is that the "haves" don't want to rub elbows with the "have nots". I know there are exceptions to this. Don Wilson comes to mind. Unfortunately there are more who fit Larry's description than Don's.

Tom Mc
11-30-2010, 10:47 AM
Good grief, LE is not whats wrong with sailing.
What have shife and mjr done to promote sailing ?

doghouse
11-30-2010, 10:53 AM
It's thinking like that which led to the Germans bombing of Pearl Harbor!
Ha.

Ballard Sailor
11-30-2010, 10:53 AM
Man, I just had my tv taken away and was told to go sailing, we have to work with the tv nowdays?

I would think a cheap fun wood hulled boat that can be built cheaply and easily in someones garage or basement will do great things for the sport.

Shife
11-30-2010, 10:54 AM
Good grief, LE is not whats wrong with sailing.
What have shife and mjr done to promote sailing ?

If you're looking for some stupid shitfight you're going to have to find somebody else to play with. Care to contribute to the discussion? Your opinion on the subject perhaps?

mjr
11-30-2010, 11:01 AM
shife, they dont even need to rub elbows. just cut the check! LOL

tom, ive done a shit-ton. ie- volunteering with inner city kids from oakland and richmond and getting them on the water. these are kids so poor they dont even get enough to eat at home! we had to make them lunch before anything else, they were so hungry. the basic problem was a lack of funding! ive also worked with rich yacht club kids and a travel opti team. ive seen both sides of it. this wasnt 1 summer, it was years. the urban kids dug the sailing, big time. but the money doesnt grown on trees, and sadly those w/ deep pockets seem to be quite greedy

i never said larry was whats wrong with sailing, i simply said he could donate an infinitely small portion of his wealth and get thousands of kids on the water, but he chooses not to. he COULD be a solution. get it?

what have you done?

IOR Geezer
11-30-2010, 11:12 AM
Man, I just had my tv taken away and was told to go sailing, we have to work with the tv nowdays?

I would think a cheap fun wood hulled boat that can be built cheaply and easily in someones garage or basement will do great things for the sport.

Stuffed with enough throw pillows, and a proper frame to support it at a 20 to 30 degree angle, old dinks like one in Sanity Checks thread would make a great basement
loft chair/couch for watching tv! (for those of us who like to sail in less then drenching conditions)

Tom Mc
11-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Typical shife SA contribution. Didn't you get booted from there?
Sorry, not going to ply insult game with you.
cheers

Tom Mc
11-30-2010, 11:20 AM
shife, they dont even need to rub elbows. just cut the check! LOL

tom, ive done a shit-ton. ie- volunteering with inner city kids from oakland and richmond and getting them on the water. these are kids so poor they dont even get enough to eat at home! we had to make them lunch before anything else, they were so hungry. the basic problem was a lack of funding! ive also worked with rich yacht club kids and a travel opti team. ive seen both sides of it. this wasnt 1 summer, it was years. the urban kids dug the sailing, big time. but the money doesnt grown on trees, and sadly those w/ deep pockets seem to be quite greedy

i never said larry was whats wrong with sailing, i simply said he could donate an infinitely small portion of his wealth and get thousands of kids on the water, but he chooses not to. he COULD be a solution. get it?
what have you done?

No I don't get it.
As much or more than you but I'm not blamming people with lots of hard earned money for not supporting sailing.
Why not blame Opra ? she's got some dough

aA
11-30-2010, 12:14 PM
what are you trying to say tom? because from what i can tell all you've said so far is insults and i'm better/have done more than you

doghouse
11-30-2010, 12:19 PM
what are you trying to say tom? because from what i can tell all you've said so far is insults and i'm better/have done more than you
No way, I'm better, why don't you people know that?

aA
11-30-2010, 12:23 PM
No way, I'm better, why don't you people know that?

it never ends...

Buzz Light Beer
11-30-2010, 12:49 PM
"The flogging will continue until morale improves"
~the managment~

Always liked that logic

aA
11-30-2010, 12:51 PM
"The flogging will continue until morale improves"
~the managment~

Always liked that logic

indeed

Buzz Light Beer
11-30-2010, 01:00 PM
And it's "Hoi Polloi"

spelling nazi out!

doghouse
11-30-2010, 01:10 PM
Heil!
And it's "Hoi Polloi"

spelling nazi out!

Shife
11-30-2010, 01:25 PM
Typical shife SA contribution. Didn't you get booted from there?
Sorry, not going to ply insult game with you.
cheers

What insult? I think you're looking for something that isn't there.

edit: and yes, I was booted from SA. Until 2038 or something like that. Scooter went apeshit when I made it public that he tried to get a forum member fired from his day job for writing letters to advertisers. Anything else you'd like to know?

Ballard Sailor
11-30-2010, 03:04 PM
I think I may build one of these and sell it for cost or donate it to a sailing club. Should be a fun experience.

http://pressure-drop.us/imagehost/images/93600848890328007060.jpg

http://pressure-drop.us/imagehost/images/39838718528402199850.jpg

http://pressure-drop.us/imagehost/images/90672959980945565608.jpg

Shife
11-30-2010, 03:22 PM
That's a neat little stitch and glue project. What is it?

aA
11-30-2010, 03:26 PM
looks like a mini fireball

mjr
11-30-2010, 03:45 PM
looks like a cool project... but is this whats gonna get non-whites and lower income folks into the sport?

BobJ
11-30-2010, 05:35 PM
The point of my earlier posts is that there are two issues (IMHO) - Doing something for your community by getting the have-nots (your term) out sailing, vs. addressing the declining participation in the local racing fleets. I don't think the first will do much of anything to solve the second. The reasons are in my earlier posts.

Just to stir it a bit more (and 'cause I respect both of you guys) - an earlier iteration of Tom got a time out over at SA too - just not for as long.

Bob Hughes
11-30-2010, 07:06 PM
No I don't get it.
As much or more than you but I'm not blamming people with lots of hard earned money for not supporting sailing.
Why not blame Opra ? she's got some dough
Tom, this is the kind of bullshit that drove me away from SA. Shife has brought up a legit topic and you have contributed nothing.....looks to me like you're picking a fight.

I live in a small community and this has been a recent topic of discussion. Our club is over flowing with old farts....many of which don't even boat. We do have a junior program which has drawn interest from the youngsters, but many lose interest after a few years and move away after they leave the nest. As boat owners, we've decided we need to extend an invitation to the jr. sailors that are outgrowing the optis by inviting them out for our Thursday night races. We'll see how it goes. I'll have to put the work filter on that controls the f-bombs.

BobJ
11-30-2010, 09:06 PM
Bob H., when I was a kid in the YC's junior program this worked with me. Our family's boat was too small and slow to race, but a club member invited me to crew on my first bay race (FYI Tom, it was Hal Wondelleck with the Santana 22, TEMPEST and IYC was a new club then). I couldn't help much but it gave me the taste. Then about a year later another IYC member (Dick Heckman with the Santana 27, QUETZAL) invited me to crew on my first ocean race. It turned into an overnighter and was a scary but great experience.

That was over 40 years ago and I'm still a weekend hack, but someday you'll have to pry the tiller extension out of my cold dead fingers.

Barkley
11-30-2010, 09:59 PM
I lived in London for a while, and this place absolutely rocked: http://www.dswc.org/ A little piece of non-tidal water near Canary Wharf, $35 for a night of sailing, an all you can eat BBQ dinner, a bottle of water and a can of beer. No membership required, just show up when you can, pay your fee and go grab a boat. I don't know whether the economics worked or there was a subsidy of some kind, and most of the fleet had never even heard of a rulebook, but they got all kinds of newbies out and it was definitely good for the sport.

doghouse
12-01-2010, 04:47 AM
I lived in London for a while, and this place absolutely rocked: http://www.dswc.org/ A little piece of non-tidal water near Canary Wharf, $35 for a night of sailing, an all you can eat BBQ dinner, a bottle of water and a can of beer. No membership required, just show up when you can, pay your fee and go grab a boat. I don't know whether the economics worked or there was a subsidy of some kind, and most of the fleet had never even heard of a rulebook, but they got all kinds of newbies out and it was definitely good for the sport.
That sounds pretty fun actually

Charlie Tuna
12-01-2010, 10:16 AM
Does sound like an idyllic situation. The litigious world we live in here, here, in the good ole US of A might prohibit any yacht club from loaning or renting out
any boats without a lengthy release form signed.

Ballard Sailor
12-01-2010, 12:42 PM
That's a neat little stitch and glue project. What is it?

It is a new Henderson pram, the Shamoo, I believe. Floatation built in and a modern rig. Designed by Tom Henderson. I'm going to try and get some more details this weekend at the pickled herring festival.

Ballard Sailor
12-01-2010, 12:44 PM
looks like a cool project... but is this whats gonna get non-whites and lower income folks into the sport?

I've no idea how this would help the minorities you speak of, I thought we where looking at lower class as in money, not trying to bridge the ethnic diversity gap of sailboat racing (since there are plenty of rich ethnic minorities that don't race sailboats it should be a different campaign to get them involved).

Born 2 Sail
12-01-2010, 12:51 PM
This thread got me to thinking.

What do you seek from sailing?

To dominate the race course?

To have fun with family or friends?

To some day sail away from it all?

To challenge yourself to be the best you can be?

A great excuse to get out of chores?

A method to get away from the masses?

Other?

Ballard Sailor
12-01-2010, 01:14 PM
I was thinking these same things earlier today, thought I may sit down and figure that out soon.

BobJ
12-01-2010, 01:57 PM
You left off "international accolades."

Practical answer: A great excuse to get out of chores. Also, one kid has a drum set plus plays the trumpet, another plays the clarinet (so "some P&Q" is a factor).

Better answer: What has kept me engaged in sailing for over 40 years is that it meets so many personal needs (for lack of a better description).

Social: friendships, being part of a team, working together on committees;
Physical Excercise;
Creativity: problem-solving, designing/building/fixing/making better;
Competition: the drive to do well and improve;
Adventure: sailing out the Gate and making landfall two weeks later in Hawaii;
Mental: navigation, knowing the racing rules . . .
Etc!

A 72 y/old friend and lifelong sailor said recently "Sailing makes you a better person." I really believe that.

hobot
12-01-2010, 02:22 PM
Now that's a great description I can completly agree with.

aA
12-01-2010, 04:11 PM
because i've never known any different
because some of my closest friends who have become a second family do it with me
because i enjoy the chess game on a liquid and ever changing chess board
because of all the positives it has added to my life
because i want my kids to have the same opportunity, or as close to it as today's world allows, as possible
because it's better than sitting around on my ass watching overpaid babies in pro sports
because it isn't mainstream
because it has always made me feel more alive than any other activity

etcetera etcetera

EVK4
12-01-2010, 04:32 PM
.
.
.
I always wonder why people feel a need to "grow the sport". Swimmers are always talking about the same thing when their lane already has 5 people in it. I like having the water to myself but then again I'm not really a racer; I can see why you guys like to have more boats or access to more crew. But still if it goes mainstream (not picking on aA because it's one of the reasons I like sailing) then there are going to be a lot of boats in your way when you're out on the water...with inexperienced drivers at the helm just waiting to run into you.

edit: this was my 100th post, I preferred to be a "30 knot maniac" to "headed offshore". Can that be changed back?

Edit again: That really sounds callous. I do like the idea of more people sailing, in fact I've taken many newbies out, but I just don't get the fascination with growth that everyone has.



because it isn't mainstream

Photoboy
12-02-2010, 11:58 AM
because it's better than sitting around on my ass watching overpaid babies in pro sports



http://nbcprohockeytalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/ottawasuncover.jpg

* unless they are sporting ice skates....

;P

Have a ticket for section 114 Row 4 Seat 4 for Dec 13 vs Stars, $115

nttiatwwt

Old Codger
12-02-2010, 09:35 PM
Greetings.
No "one size fits all" answer that I know of. Perhaps just recognizing an individual opportunity and doing something with it. I first sailed at age 6 and haven't missed a few good sessions on the water for the past 50+. Few years ago I was fortunate enough to be able to go sailing every day for 3 months. Nothing organised on the lake but if there were 2 boats out there we'd at the least be pacing each other. Weekends, lots of boats, weekdays not so much if any. Summer camp on the lake with plenty of kids and plenty of canoes but not a single sail to be found. I had a sunfish that I hadn't used for some time so I went down to the camp and asked if any of the councillors knew how to sail. Short of it is that I gave them the boat and a new sail. There were a few questions as to why I was doing this and I responded that I just wanted some kid to have fun and become a good enough sailor to whup my ass out on the lake. A few of the campers parents had boats that they weren't using or obtained used boats for "the right price" and donated those to the camp as well over the following summers. Kids took to it and there isn't a decent day on the lake during summer camp that a couple of laughing kids aren't trying to beat the "old guy". Water balloon fights are no longer optional. If we ever try and set up actual races one of the hard set rules will be 3 mandatory capsizes per leg. Future racers? Who knows. Kids that enjoy sailing? You can bet on it.

Barkley
12-04-2010, 10:27 PM
Love it!

Bob Hughes
12-05-2010, 07:47 AM
http://nbcprohockeytalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/ottawasuncover.jpg

* unless they are sporting ice skates....

;P

Have a ticket for section 114 Row 4 Seat 4 for Dec 13 vs Stars, $115

nttiatwwt
Do we have a San Jose fan here? Go Wings!

Old Codger
12-05-2010, 09:34 AM
.
.
.
I always wonder why people feel a need to "grow the sport". Swimmers are always talking about the same thing when their lane already has 5 people in it. I like having the water to myself but then again I'm not really a racer; I can see why you guys like to have more boats or access to more crew. But still if it goes mainstream (not picking on aA because it's one of the reasons I like sailing) then there are going to be a lot of boats in your way when you're out on the water...with inexperienced drivers at the helm just waiting to run into you.

edit: this was my 100th post, I preferred to be a "30 knot maniac" to "headed offshore". Can that be changed back?

Edit again: That really sounds callous. I do like the idea of more people sailing, in fact I've taken many newbies out, but I just don't get the fascination with growth that everyone has.

Given the choice, would you rather share the water with dozens of PWCs running Rotaxs at RPM levels that sound like they are about to shit hemorrhage bits of metal and plastic around you... or.. the equivalent number of sailboats? I learned a hell of a lot more about Bernoulli, laminar flow and other related physics by trying to get an extra knot or two out of a Y-Flyer back in the day than I ever did in my physics classes. Take the kids out for a sail, good on you, but maybe try and figure out a way to explain to them how and why sailing works. Forces you to think about how you sail when you are trying to explain to a 10 year old why you do what you do, and you'll be better for it. Sailing makes you think in ways that just getting into a motorised vehicle and turning the key, doesn't come close to.
If I had Mr Ellison's money there would be thousands of 17 foot versions of the AC 45 boats with soft sails distributed to every lake in North America, on my dime. Yes, I'd have all the hulls done up with BMW/Oracle graphics. :-)

aA
12-06-2010, 07:44 AM
Have a ticket for section 114 Row 4 Seat 4 for Dec 13 vs Stars, $115


row 4 is cool but you miss too much of the play along the near boards, the best seats start around row 14.

and $115 before xmas is too hard to handle, especially since i just paid for tomorrow night's roger water's the wall tix

aA
12-06-2010, 07:45 AM
Do we have a San Jose fan here? Go Wings!

i will have to check, but i think mentioning the wings here is (or at least should be) a breach of the terms of service

doghouse
12-06-2010, 09:20 AM
i will have to check, but i think mentioning the wings here is (or at least should be) a breach of the terms of service
I support this. Go Hawks!!

foreguy
12-06-2010, 09:34 AM
Cap's is where it's at!

Photoboy
12-06-2010, 03:22 PM
row 4 is cool but you miss too much of the play along the near boards, the best seats start around row 14.

and $115 before xmas is too hard to handle, especially since i just paid for tomorrow night's roger water's the wall tix

...This thread will continue to die if we keep going on about overpaid hockey players...I wish I was rich enough to see "The Wall", it certainly
is not targeted at the hoi polloi...that's for sure...

Bob Hughes
12-06-2010, 05:25 PM
i will have to check, but i think mentioning the wings here is (or at least should be) a breach of the terms of service

Well, well...look what's on! Wings and Sharks. Might be time to start an NHL thread.

Sanity Check
12-07-2010, 07:35 AM
<snip>
If I had Mr Ellison's money there would be thousands of 17 foot versions of the AC 45 boats with soft sails distributed to every lake in North America, on my dime. Yes, I'd have all the hulls done up with BMW/Oracle graphics. :-)

I applaud your thinking, but I harbor the suspicion that your thinking doesn't go along with the ability to amass that kind of wealth.. and/or that that kind of wealth doesn't go along with that kind of thinking.

People tend to want the best for themselves and perhaps the relative affordability of the best jet ski over an AC boat - or maybe even a 30-foot sport boat - is part of the reason why sailing is not as popular as it ought to be.

Besides physics, sailing teaches the most valuable lesson which is that we act within nature and cannot truly control it.

Charlie Tuna
12-07-2010, 09:14 AM
Why would anyone pay $$$ to see an aging rocker who is just 1/4 of the band he was originally in, play a repeat of a rock opera that was 1st produced
30 years ago, and wasn't that good to begin with? It's like turbo-ing a Cal 20, you can do it, but why?

Ballard Sailor
12-07-2010, 09:31 AM
Wait, are talking about Dee Snider? than yes!

doghouse
12-07-2010, 10:28 AM
Why would anyone pay $$$ to see an aging rocker who is just 1/4 of the band he was originally in, play a repeat of a rock opera that was 1st produced
30 years ago, and wasn't that good to begin with? It's like turbo-ing a Cal 20, you can do it, but why?
I wou... wait... what?

Buzz Light Beer
12-07-2010, 10:42 AM
If sailing dies, won't boats and gear get much cheaper?
You might be able to buy a lightly used thorough bred 45' footer for pennies on the dollar?
Former rock stars will be calling YOU asking if they can come sailing this weekend, and what kind of beer you like?
Sailmakers would have a bidding war on how low they could go to make your new quiver?
We might want to re-think this.
Hmmmmmm

Old Codger
12-07-2010, 11:14 AM
I applaud your thinking, but I harbor the suspicion that your thinking doesn't go along with the ability to amass that kind of wealth.. and/or that that kind of wealth doesn't go along with that kind of thinking.

People tend to want the best for themselves and perhaps the relative affordability of the best jet ski over an AC boat - or maybe even a 30-foot sport boat - is part of the reason why sailing is not as popular as it ought to be.

Besides physics, sailing teaches the most valuable lesson which is that we act within nature and cannot truly control it.

Your suspicion is correct, that mentality seems to go for the "Grand Gesture".
Maybe if more children actually had the opportunity to sail then they'd chose to buy the sailboat rather than the jetski when it comes time to make a choice. Have you looked at what a PWC costs?
"the most valuable lesson which is that we act within nature and cannot truly control it". Absolutely.

hobot
12-07-2010, 12:35 PM
it never ends...

S.


Fixed.

(sheesh,,,amateurs)

Shife
12-07-2010, 03:13 PM
S.


Fixed.

(sheesh,,,amateurs)

The "s" should be lower case. Amateur.

aA
12-07-2010, 03:51 PM
Why would anyone pay $$$ to see an aging rocker who is just 1/4 of the band he was originally in, play a repeat of a rock opera that was 1st produced
30 years ago, and wasn't that good to begin with? It's like turbo-ing a Cal 20, you can do it, but why?

because i wasn't allowed to see it 30 years ago. whatsitmattafoyou?


The "s" should be lower case. Amateur.

i find it slightly amusing how that quote is perpetually attributed to him

EVK4
12-07-2010, 04:17 PM
.
.
.
It was Lesbian Robot wasn't it?


i find it slightly amusing how that quote is perpetually attributed to him

aA
12-07-2010, 04:22 PM
no sir

Photoboy
12-08-2010, 04:08 PM
$115 before xmas is too hard to handle, especially since i just paid for tomorrow night's roger water's the wall tix

Well?

aA
12-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Well?

i've been lucky enough to witness some incredible shows from some of the world's most amazing artists but tonight's show, by far, was the most incredible music and visual production i have ever seen. words simply do not do it justice


my only wish is that gilmour had been the man behind the axe

doghouse
12-09-2010, 07:20 AM
my only wish is that gilmour had been the man behind the axe

Goddamn right. Watching the G8 show the other year was crazy...

PD Staff
12-09-2010, 10:39 AM
Have a charitable sailing program that is in need of funding? A concept on how to bring it to the masses? Perhaps you have been looking in all the wrong places:



To whom it may concern,

Many years ago, I put virtually all of my assets into a trust with the intent of giving away at least 95% of my wealth to charitable causes. I have already given hundreds of millions of dollars to medical research and education, and I will give billions more over time. Until now, I have done this giving quietly – because I have long believed that charitable giving is a personal and private matter. So why am I going public now? Warren Buffett personally asked me to write this letter because he said I would be “setting an example” and “influencing others” to give. I hope he’s right.

Larry Ellison


http://givingpledge.org/#larry_ellison


http://givingpledge.org

There is a whole host of funding's to be had, one would need to present a grant request from on of the multitude of wealthy philanthropists listed here, or one of the Foundation Centers (http://foundationcenter.org/)

Charlie Tuna
12-09-2010, 12:09 PM
because i wasn't allowed to see it 30 years ago. whatsitmattafoyou?


Because it was overrated then. It led to the band's premature breakup. Now Waters tours utilizing Pink Floyd material after taking the remaining band members to court to extinguish
the bands name, and prevent anyone from ever performing as Pink Floyd again. Fuck him.