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Alan H
03-16-2011, 02:28 PM
Thoughts?

I don't know the boat well. This would be the old deck style. The new rolled deck is pretty cool, I have to say. Seems like it might be fun, but pretty darned wet on a summer day in the slot. Dangerous, though?? The boat seems like half dinghy, half keelboat.

Kris O
03-16-2011, 06:53 PM
I've seen several but not when its blowing, they don't surf well http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sail1/imagepages/image1.asp

BobJ
03-16-2011, 07:21 PM
Wow, that's been a few years ago. I remember when a whole fleet of 'em raced in the Estuary - mid 70's?

It wouldn't be my choice, especially in the Central Bay. As I recall the rig was light and spindly/tweaky. For example the aft lowers ran on dinghy track, with adjusters to straighten the mast back out after tightening the backstay. The whole works looked pretty flimsy.

I'd take a 22 (like in Kris's picture) over a 20 for around here, but we've already had that discussion.

Bob Hughes
03-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Needs bottom paint....

Pete Rowland
03-16-2011, 09:48 PM
Alan ..... a santana 20 is a keelboat, just like a cal20 is a keelboat. A wabbit is half dingy, half keelboat. What makes a 20 foot boat dangerous on the bay? Sounds like a rhetorical question to me.

Alan H
03-16-2011, 10:15 PM
Alan ..... a santana 20 is a keelboat, just like a cal20 is a keelboat. A wabbit is half dingy, half keelboat. What makes a 20 foot boat dangerous on the bay? Sounds like a rhetorical question to me.

You make a good point... not all that different in mass and construction from a Wabbit. There are 40 foot boats that are dangerous on the Bay and there are 14 foot boats which can go out when it's honkin'. It depends on the design and construction and the skill of the people on the boat that make it safe or not, not the LOA.

My concern is with overall lightness of the construction, like Bob pointed out. I was thinking that this one might be a good winter and estuary boat. And it's not the one on craigslist.:cool:

BobJ
03-16-2011, 11:25 PM
Alan, are you thinking about joining the dry-sailing fleet over here? It's working out pretty well and saving me a ton of money (I estimate over $500/month). Besides, there are only two places you can run aground in the Estuary . . .

enzo
03-17-2011, 06:33 PM
I've seen several but not when its blowing, they don't surf well http://photos.sfsurvey.com/sail1/imagepages/image1.asp

That's a Tuna 22; GREAT bay boat, but not designed to sail in the break.
Driven well they surf like mad though.

Alan H
03-18-2011, 11:47 AM
Alan, are you thinking about joining the dry-sailing fleet over here? It's working out pretty well and saving me a ton of money (I estimate over $500/month). Besides, there are only two places you can run aground in the Estuary . . .

Bob I am sorely missing my SSS racing season. I could probably schmooze George to doublehand Velocious for most of the season, but darn it, it's not the same as having my own boat. I like the skerry and I am looking forward to getting it in the water, but it's not the same thing.

I promised the Mrs. "no berth rent, etc" and I need to stick to that. After how many years of dropping what for me is big money on sails, haulouts, insurance and so on, I just can't go there again, now.

Also, I trailer-sailed the SC27 for two years out of Alameda. Honest truth is that it just makes me nervous to hang a boat THAT big from a hoist. That goes double because I'm always doing it by myself. It's just a gigantic hassle. Smaller would be easier, eh? Then again, to sail, I have to drive all the way to Alameda to launch the boat. I may have a way around that....I can sail the skerry whenever I feel like a short easy day, and when it's time for an SSS race I can go up to Alameda. That might work out.

Whatever the next keelboat is, it's going to have to be small. The days of big bills is over. Thus the question about the Santana 20. It's just that what I've seen of the Tuna 20's is that they're built awfully light. That's fine for the Estuary, after all there are only two places to run aground in the Estuary, and it never blows hard there...*ahem*...but maybe not so good in the SSS Corinthian race, where you're beating up the face of Angel Island in 25 knots and big chop.

There's a Sprinta Sport at Coyote Point that is in good shape, has even done some recent SSS events. It's been for sale for two years. I'm thinking about pitching the guy a partnership proposal. He lives in SoCal now so there probably wouldn't be many issues with scheduling. The Sprinta Sport is reasonably fast, built like a tank, and laid out well for singlehanding, with that dinky little cockpit and easy access to the outboard motor.

I dunno.

The smartest thing to do would be to doublehand with George, duh!! It's always fun, just that at heart, I love to sail solo.

Alan H
03-18-2011, 11:49 AM
Back and forth, back and forth. If I could, I would buy that Golden Shamrock, and drop twelve or fifteen bills into a major restoration.

The Flash
03-18-2011, 12:51 PM
Hey Alan,
No first hand knowledge - but just looked at the class website Q&As. There's a question/reference to the early boats having foam rudders with only gelcoat over the foam. No glass. I think that points out to the boat being designed for lighter air.

What about a Cal 20? there's something on SA called a Zap 26 that might be of interest/but might be too much boat for what you need now. Tuna 22s take the bay conditions pretty well. I used to have a Pearson 23 Cat Rigged boat -that was a nice little boat for the bay - and easy to daysail. Could be setup with a kite with some runners. It was pretty darn quick on a reach as well. We didn't have it on a hoist - but I think that could be set up - there is simple access to the keel bolts. This one is in British Columbia... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2276301&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=39466&url=

BobJ
03-18-2011, 12:51 PM
The first time I had the 92 hanging from the hoist (30x10x6 and 5,500# on a single-point lift), I looked up and thought "what the - am I doing?!!?

It is tricky solo. Not too bad going in the water but pretty tough getting it back on the trailer. I can't do it in one move because the boat is too big. I have to back the trailer part way, then swing the boat around over it, tie it off and walk away from it (!) so I can back the trailer up the rest of the way. With much cross wind, fuggettabout it. Fortunately on the weekends there's usually someone around to help.

The alternative was to sell the boat and I just couldn't bring myself to do that - rip my freakin' heart out after eight years and what, 10,000 solo miles? I listed it briefly after the 2008 SHTP but then I found the trailer.

Anyway, we miss you out there. How about a Wilderness 21? Matt's having fun with his, Dan Haynes raced one for a long time, sails are cheap (relatively) . . .

Alan H
03-18-2011, 05:37 PM
All of those boats are options, Cal 20, Tuna 22 and Wilderness 21. My very first boat was a Cal 20 and I learned a lot on old Scarvy Dog. A W21 on a trailer would probably be my favorite of the bunch and if I coulod find one for $1500 I would have to start getting really serious. Having spent two and a half SSS seasons worth of overnighters sleeping in a very wet Cal 20 belowdecks, where the bunk area is about 3 inches above the cabin sole, I would hesitate to get one again. I was a lot younger and stupider then, but there's no question that they are great little boats.

Tom Mc
03-18-2011, 11:26 PM
You can get into a Santana 22 for $1500 but its easily a $5000 boat by the time you get a good bottom, updated hardware and good sails on it. One has done very well in the SSS races over the last couple of years.

some dude
03-19-2011, 12:02 AM
All of those boats are options, Cal 20, Tuna 22 and Wilderness 21. My very first boat was a Cal 20 and I learned a lot on old Scarvy Dog. A W21 on a trailer would probably be my favorite of the bunch and if I coulod find one for $1500 I would have to start getting really serious. Having spent two and a half SSS seasons worth of overnighters sleeping in a very wet Cal 20 belowdecks, where the bunk area is about 3 inches above the cabin sole, I would hesitate to get one again. I was a lot younger and stupider then, but there's no question that they are great little boats.



Get a Tuna 22! There are some very good boats around that need to get back out there

willy_boykin
03-19-2011, 12:55 AM
You can get into a Santana 22 for $1500 but its easily a $5000 boat by the time you get a good bottom, updated hardware and good sails on it. One has done very well in the SSS races over the last couple of years.

Words of wisdom. You'll spend the initial purchase price just in your first years dry storage fees and from an annual upkeep perspective, if your willing to do the maint yourself and buy 1 sail every other year or used sails if available you'll get a lot more flexibility out of something in the 24-27' range. Obviously I don't know your $ pain tolerance but I've seen a scary number of SC27's selling in the $5k or less market lately. Easy to single hand and launch but way more bang for your buck in my mind.

Guitar
03-20-2011, 09:03 PM
Good boat.

Alan H
03-21-2011, 11:26 AM
Oh, I love SC27's. LOL...you know, seeing as I sailed one to Hawaii in 2008, and all. Funny thing is, I won some trophies with that boat in SSS races around the Bay, but I could never win diddly in the H Boat or the Santana 3030. In part that's because I was a smarter sailer when I had the SC27, but also because it's a great shorthanded boat.

The ONLY thing I don't like about the SC27 is the berth arrangement, and that's saying something. Everything else...love the boat..

Well, that and launching/retrieving the thing on/off the trailer by myself.

Alan H
03-21-2011, 03:56 PM
Actually, I've decided that I've had enough of this sailing thing. I'm getting old. I think I need a power yacht on a budget.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp165/Alanh22/Boat4Sale.jpg

willy_boykin
03-21-2011, 10:22 PM
Actually, I've decided that I've had enough of this sailing thing. I'm getting old. I think I need a power yacht on a budget.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp165/Alanh22/Boat4Sale.jpg

Yeah, you think it's a good deal but once you put a extension on the outboard handle, tint the windows and upgrade the bumpers your looking at $5k minimum...