PDA

View Full Version : The new J/88 is sailing



BobJ
07-03-2013, 04:41 PM
I think I see Norman aboard. (http://www.jboats.com/j88)

My 92 is twenty years old . . . is it time?

familysailor
07-03-2013, 05:41 PM
Be great if you could trailer sail it. Won't work at RYC as the hoist limit is 3800 lbs.
Does anyone know the weight limit at Brickyard?

Edit:
Brickyard's website lists 4400 lbs. Max. The J88 spec page says 4800 lbs. displacement.
.
Hmmm.

BobJ
07-03-2013, 06:07 PM
Alameda Marina's larger hoist (Gate 4) is 6,000#. I drysailed my 92 out of there for 3+ years.

familysailor
07-03-2013, 06:37 PM
Any hoists in Marin?
I'll check SFYC and Corinthian but I think their both small.

Dutch Rudder
07-03-2013, 10:17 PM
How much different is the 88 from the 92?

BobJ
07-03-2013, 10:56 PM
Not a lot - 88/92:

LOA . . . 29.2/30.0
LWL . . . 26.8/26.5
Beam . . . 9.5/10.0
Draft . . . . 6.5/5.9
Displ. . . 4,850/5,500
Ballast. . Unk./2,275
Diesel . . 12hp/9hp
100%SA . 439/469
SA/D . . . . 24/24
Displ/L . . 112.5/132
I . . . . . . 38.7/37.0
J . . . . . . 11.3/11.5
P . . . . . . 36.8/38.0
E . . . . . . 12.0/13.5
ISP. . . . . 41.6/38.5
JSP. . . . . 18.1/17.0
Sail Away $160k/Paid For

The 88 has a masthead kite, an outboard rudder, a deck-stepped carbon mast, non-overlapping jib, a smaller cabin/larger cockpit, and it's new.

Tom Mc
07-03-2013, 11:59 PM
Did you order a blue one?

BobJ
07-04-2013, 09:17 AM
Tom, let me parse out that last line for you:

Sail Away: J/88=$160k . . . J/92=Paid For

BobJ
07-04-2013, 09:33 AM
Oops, timed out . . .

The local dealer won't get his until October. I'll certainly give it a close look, probably sail it, and see what rating they give it - but after the recent refit of my boat and five new sails purchased over the last six months, my J/92 is looking real good in comparison.

BobJ
07-04-2013, 10:44 AM
No, I'm not trying to sell my boat but it's going to be a lot cooler on the Bay than here at home, and I'm told we have no plans. Want to go sailing on a J/92?

PM me in the next hour or so.

BobJ
07-05-2013, 04:54 PM
There's some chat elsewhere about why the engine is bigger in the J/88. I think it's a good idea. My 1GM10 has been a fine little engine but at 9 hp (8 hp depending where you look) it has trouble keeping the boat at hull speed in some conditions. If the batteries are low and the alternator is working hard, it can struggle. Most of the time it's fine though - I sure wouldn't want much additional weight. One problem is you can't buy the 1 cyl. Yanmar here any more, so 12 hp may be the smallest engine they could get.

BobJ
07-06-2013, 08:44 PM
In the downwind photos of the J/88, does it look like it's planing? I've seen a photo caption that says it is but I'm not convinced.

I know what planing feels like on my boat (which is very similar in dimensions and characteristics to the J/88) and I'm not seeing it in the conditions they're sailing in.

Honest question - what do you think?

familysailor
07-07-2013, 12:30 AM
Do you mean the photos in the link you provided in your first post?
Doesn't really look like planing. Would need to see a video to certain.

Thing-Fish
07-07-2013, 03:39 PM
Do you think that rudder looks up to snuff for offshore? Also, I used to think I wanted a carbon Columbia 32, how does this boat compare? Or run the numbers against a Flying Tiger?

BobJ
07-08-2013, 08:37 AM
With all the J/29's and J/30's (and smaller J's w/OB rudders) out there, I assume they got the outboard rudder nailed. I was surprised about it when I first saw the drawings but it's growing on me. I am curious to see how a (non-balanced) outboard rudder will work with that big masthead kite in our conditions. Also, the benefit is being able to remove it when not sailing - the rudder on my boat is the first thing to get fouled with marine growth - but since they didn't do a cassette I don't know how easy it will be to remove.

familysailor
07-08-2013, 12:11 PM
Seems like it's not difficult to design a transom hung rudder that is balance or semi-balanced. Part of it can project forward under the transom. Modified pintle/gudgeon setup is needed, but not complicated.
Why are these not commonly used?

EDIT:
Left Coast Dart rudder

http://www.leftcoast.biz/iWeb/Left_Coast/Products_files/IMG_0072.jpghttp://www.leftcoast.biz/iWeb/Left_Coast/Products_files/IMG_0072.jpg

BobJ
07-08-2013, 01:31 PM
I'm sure J Boats considered all this. Perhaps the angle in the water provides some balance? I've sailed J/80's a lot (they have a proportionately large spinnaker), and that rudder seems to work without the forward projection. I've also broached a J/80 in the Bay hard enough to make your head snap - and the 80's aren't masthead. We'll see.

BobJ
07-09-2013, 09:17 AM
Okay, we have some specs. I like the deck construction/reinforcement (foam vs. balsa). It sounds like the boom is set up for just one reef. I haven't used my second reef much but when I have, I've sorely needed it. Hopefully the space is there and it would just need the sheave and rigging. Anyway, here you go:

J/88 Specifications @6-04-13

Construction:
• J/88 hull & deck infusion molded with biaxial and unidirectional E-glass fabrics and balsa core in the hull for rugged durability and Corecell foam core in the deck for light weight. High density core material and additional glass reinforcements are placed in way of highly loaded hardware and components. All laminates are engineered and built to required ISO structural standards.
• Molded internal bulkheads and liners finished with gelcoat, bonded and/or tabbed to the hull and/or deck.
• White gelcoat hull with single boot stripe.
• 10 year transferable warranty against osmotic hull blistering, 5 year structural warranty.
• Infused GRP molded structural grid with longitudinal and transverse keel support beams. One large cockpit seat storage locker.
• Open transom for easy access with lightweight ORC transom safety ladder.
• High strength, inward turning and overlapping hull to deck joint bonded with structural adhesive.
• White gelcoat deck with molded non-skid on horizontal deck surfaces.
• Molded ISO/ORC height foredeck toe-rails on deck.
• Large self-draining cockpit with molded secure helmsman footbraces in cockpit.
• 6.5’ draft low VCG keel with lead ballast featuring molded GRP finish.

Engine, Steering & Systems:
• 14hp, two cylinder Yanmar 2YM15 diesel engine with 80amp alternator and Saildrive SD-20 leg.
• Keyless start/stop engine panel and tachometer with alarms and engine hour counter.
• Flexofold geared 2-bladed bronze folding prop.
• Engine throttle control with neutral safety switch.
• Waterlock muffler with exhaust run aft to transom.
• 12 gal fuel tank.
• High aspect transom mounted rudder with custom SS gudgeon hardware.
• Custom molded composite tiller in white gelcoat finish.
• Spinlock EA 1200 adjustable tiller extension with handle.
• Cockpit operated manual bilge pump operable from the helm position plumbed to transom fitting.

Electrical:
• One AGM Group 27 battery (option for 2nd battery).
• 12V DC On/Off battery switch.
• 12V DC electrical distribution panel w/ 6 circuit breakers.
• LED Navigation & steaming lights.
• UL approved stranded, tinned copper ABYC color-coded wiring.
• Bonding system to meet ABYC regulations.
• Two swiveling reading lights in main cabin.
• Two red/white dome lights.
• Two DC charging plugs.
• Automatic electric bilge pump and panel switch for manual operation.

Deck Hardware:
• Low maintenance stainless grab rails on cabin house (P&S).
• Companionway opening with PVC slider tracks, large gutter drains, molded seahood and sliding cover.
• Acrylic offshore removable drop board with inside/outside lockable hasp.
• SS custom fabricated chain plates for shrouds and backstay terminations.
• Interior flush ventilation hatch mounted on cabin house forward of mast.
• Two fixed cabin side portlights.
• Two aluminum 2-speed 40:1 self-tailing primary winches in cockpit.
• Two aluminum 2-speed 30:1 self-tailing secondary winches on cabin top.
• Two 10" Lewmar OneTouch lock-in winch handles.
• Cockpit operated Harken adjustable jib car and 4:1 in-hauler systems to P&S.
• 6:1 Mainsheet system leading to ratchet block and cam mounted on centerline swivel cam base aft of traveler.
• 18:1 mainsheet fine-tune adjuster mounted to swivel base cam forward of traveler.
• Adjustable mainsheet traveler with 4:1 control line and cam cleats P & S.
• Double ended backstay adjuster purchase system leading forward to P & S cam cleats.
• Internal bowsprit launching system to exit aft face of the cabin house to cam cleat.
• Harken underdeck headsail furling system with black foils and control line leading aft on port side to cabin to cam cleat.
• Spinnaker tack line side mounted rope clutch mounted to starboard on cabin side.
• Spinnaker sheet blocks outboard of primary winches on stanchion bases and aft at stern rail.
• Halyard lead blocks mounted at mast base, halyard organizers and double Antal Vcam rope clutches one per side.
• SS stanchions, two SS stern rails at transom corners and custom SS bow rail with 9.5" lower lifeline height.
• SS double lifelines.
• Foredeck and transom mooring cleats.

Spars & Rigging:
• Hall Spars carbon fiber mast with double swept spreaders, long masthead crane and mainsail luff track. Deck step design and SS tabernacle system. Mast finished in satin black with contrasting white bands.
• Boom with internal 8:1 outhaul, mainsheet attachment points, outhaul and single reef sheaves as well as provision for reef cleat and block at inboard end. Finished in satin black with contrasting white bands.
• Carbon bow sprit with tack ferrule fitting, painted black finish. Bow sprit seal system mounted between sprit bearings.
• Rod headstay, 1 x 19 compacted strand wire side rigging with adjustable open-body turnbuckles, and Dyneema backstay.
• Complete Hall Spars running rigging package.

Interior:
• Molded main salon liner with full length settee berths, molded backrests, storage access below, and molded areas for sink (forward to port) and hinged utility counter (forward to starboard).
• Choice of fabrics for 3" standard main salon cushions.
• Teak and holly synthetic high-wear cabin sole in main cabin.
• Igloo Cooler.
• Fabricated companionway ladder with teak treads.
• Molded V-berth and hull support liner. (Option for V-berth platform & cushions)
• Raritan PH-II marine head with holding tank and deck pump out fitting.
• Bin storage opposite head.
• Molded cockpit support liner surrounding engine and mechanicals with foam insulated engine area.
• Low maintenance painted gelcoat finish on all interior hull & deck surfaces.
• Black anodized aluminum compression post to transfer mast loads to internal hull structure.

Options:
• Opening ports on aft end of cabin facing the cockpit.
• Cockpit Dodger with side curtains.
• Black Powder-coated stanchions & rails.
• Wide Opening lifeline gates (P&S).
• V-berth Package with platform, two cushions and one swiveling reading light.
• Comfort Group Package – boom cover with J/88 logo, two cockpit cushions, and 4 padded lifeline covers.
• 110V Shore Power: 30amp shore power cord, deck receptacle, belowdecks breaker, Xantrex battery charger, AC panel, one 110v outlet, equipment leakage circuit interrupter (ELCI), galvanic isolator.
• Additional AGM Group 27 battery.

NOTICE: Specifications are subject to change prior to delivery due to deletions, additions or revisions in quantities, brand or design at the sole discretion of J/Boats, Inc. Newport, RI

Shaggy
07-09-2013, 12:13 PM
Why no quarterbirths?? Chart table?? Not asking for furniture, but at this size I would think it would be viable. Heck even light weight pipe births like the moore 24 would at least give you enough to overnite somewhere with full crew. not asking for the J30, but at least use the space no??

BobJ
07-09-2013, 08:07 PM
At that weight it will be a marginally-planing boat like my J/92 and very weight-sensitive. I also have no quarter berths; in fact I keep my boat empty aft of the companionway except for the engine and fuel tank (and I wish the tank was farther forward). I removed the v-berth plywood and cushions as soon as I bought the boat to keep weight out of the ends - like on the J/88, these were options and the boat was rated without them.

At the forward end of the starboard settee there's a shelf that is perfect for the laptop. Above that on the main bulkhead are my radio and instrument repeaters. On the back side of that bulkhead (in the hanging locker) is the autopilot computer. I would set up the J/88 the same way - fine for electronic navigation and saves even more weight vs. a chart table and the structure to support it, seat, etc.

With crew aboard I have slept in the quarterberth area, using one of the v-berth cushions with some stuff underneath. It worked fine.

The Flash
07-10-2013, 09:57 AM
But Bob - it seems like there's nothing really new about the 88 compared to your 92. Couldn't you do a refresh for $20k? Granted there would be no resale value gain, but it's not like the 88 won't depreciate like a bastard once it gets off the lot...

BobJ
07-10-2013, 10:26 AM
I agree Pops and that's what I did (see post #9) but J/92's are hard to find, and few people will do a full refit if they can afford a new boat.

BobJ
07-13-2013, 01:37 AM
Lots more pictures (including interior) and a sailing test. It sounds like the rudder is fine, but I think they define planing differently than I do . . .

J/88 test sail in Newport, by Peter Gustafsson. (http://www.blur.se/2013/07/12/j88-test-sail/)

BobJ
07-24-2013, 06:12 PM
A bit o' video with kite:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSch_u6jQYs&feature=player_embedded

Hitchhiker
11-01-2013, 12:34 PM
Looks like it's planing in that last vid.

3 ft more hoist and 1ft longer sprit is going to pump up the downwind HP quite a bit.

Question, Can the rig of the 92 handle masthead kites? Assuming you install the hardware of course.

BobJ
11-02-2013, 10:40 PM
Not on the stock aluminum Hall mast. I asked Hall and a couple local riggers about it in 2002 when I first bought my 92. They felt the upper mast section was not strong enough to take the unsupported side loads.

I don't think a masthead kite would add that much on the 92. The A2 is huge (1,019 sq. ft./94.67 sq. meters) - it's bigger than the J/105 class A2.

familysailor
11-02-2013, 10:59 PM
I believe I saw you and Ragtime tacking out of RYC late this afternoon. That is one good looking boat!

BobJ
11-03-2013, 10:24 AM
Thank you - indeed I was.

I tried twice to head back to her slip and just didn't want to do it, so I reached out into the Bay one last time and chased the last few Seaweed Soupers back in, then finally put her away as it got dark.

Stunning afternoon.

familysailor
11-04-2013, 09:12 AM
I was enjoying the experience of long deferred maintenance.... I now realize that if you wait long enough the old varnish will fall off your bright work!

BobJ
11-04-2013, 10:39 AM
...especially if it's teak. Then clean it up, bleach it and leave it bare. (What I did with RAGS's toe rails.)

familysailor
11-04-2013, 07:04 PM
too late, the building of coats has begun....