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Thread: Assys' for the uninformed

  1. #1

    Assys' for the uninformed

    Uninformed...that would be me.

    OK, so here's me, prompting you all for a discussion of the merits / disadvantages of tri-radially cut, running-emphasized-but-still-all-around asymmetrical spinnakers versus radial-head, lower-half-panelled "cruising chutes" .


    Assume that said sails are deployed on a shortish fixed sprit. Assume they are long enough on the luff to cover the end of the sprit to the hounds on the mast plus a few feet to allow for luff curve and some rotation to windward when sailing deep downwind. The boat is quick enough to surf off a wave when the breeze is up but not gonna plane no matter what.

    Educate me, willya? I know nuttin'.

  2. #2
    If it won't plane, you need something that rotates to weather.

    Cruising chutes usually look very flat to my eye.

    Take a look at a photo of a J105 or J120 going downwind.

    Even on the Santa Cruz, we had a massive shoulder on the A2, and we put it on an oversized pole and cranked it back.

  3. #3
    J/92 Ragtime!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond YC
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    1,316
    My boat doesn't plane either. Here's a good look coming into Pillar Point several weeks ago (thanks to Larry Baskin for the photo).

    Newer A2 (runners) have a shorter leech and foot = kind of a boxy shape. Ease the tack line and sheet downwind - when the tack line is angled a bit to weather you're doing well.

    Don't waste your money on a gennaker/cruising kite. You won't be able to run deep unless you go wing-on-wing, and that's slow.

    HMB16 Finish 1.jpg

  4. #4
    OK, this boats 1-D uses a typical symmetrical spinnaker. My boat has a trashed old kite, but a perfectly good spinny pole, and nice sheets. There is no structure on the bow to install a long, or rotating pole/sprit. I 'm thinking about making this transition, as a number of guys who sail these boats have suggested would be smart, since there's no 1-D in Nor Cal for 'em. I mostly singlehand and doublehand.

    By "sprit" I mean either an aluminum-pole-shoved-through-a-collar-and-sticking-out-the-front sort of thing, or maybe an A-frame like the Trogear apparatus. Neither of these is going to give me a 5-6 foot sprit. I figure the goal is to get the assy out past the end of the bow pulpit, and maybe another foot or so. More than that ain't happening, and I'm not gonna design an articulating pole. KISS.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by BobJ View Post
    My boat doesn't plane either. Here's a good look coming into Pillar Point several weeks ago (thanks to Larry Baskin for the photo).

    Newer A2 (runners) have a shorter leech and foot = kind of a boxy shape. Ease the tack line and sheet downwind - when the tack line is angled a bit to weather you're doing well.

    Don't waste your money on a gennaker/cruising kite. You won't be able to run deep unless you go wing-on-wing, and that's slow.

    HMB16 Finish 1.jpg
    That's an informative picture, Bob....thank you. From the umpty-ump cruising chute pictures I've seen, none of them even approximate this shape. Also, my boat has a ginormous main. I mean, it's heee-uge compared to the size of the foretriangle. So to get the assy to fill, it's really going to have to rotate to windward.

  6. #6
    J/92 Ragtime!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Richmond YC
    Posts
    1,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan H View Post
    By "sprit" I mean either an aluminum-pole-shoved-through-a-collar-and-sticking-out-the-front sort of thing, or maybe an A-frame like the Trogear apparatus. Neither of these is going to give me a 5-6 foot sprit. I figure the goal is to get the assy out past the end of the bow pulpit, and maybe another foot or so. More than that ain't happening, and I'm not gonna design an articulating pole. KISS.
    That should work. I've hoisted a couple times and was sailing okay, then realized I'd forgotten to extend the sprit. You can even do "outside" jibes if the sprit is a bit short, although you tend to lose the lazy sheet under the bow - better to go a bit longer on the sprit and jibe inside, especially for singlehanding.

    Come up and DH a BYC Midwinter with me. You can mess with the sails and see what you think. I'll miss this Sunday's race but there are 3-4 more.

  7. #7
    It's a deal!..... January.

  8. #8
    Be careful, an A-sail on your boat could be a gateway drug. Our old boat was designed and built for symmetric kites but once we started using an A-sail we loved it so much we bought a boat that only uses A sails and has a sprit.

    We didn't even use a sprit on the old boat, just attached a block onto the anchor roller and used that for the tack and it actually worked very well. As Bob mentioned you'll have to do outside gybes if you don't have a very long sprit but once you get the technique down it's super easy, especially shorthanded. The big key to the outside gybe is keeping a very close eye on the lazy sheet so it doesn't fall under the boat. Not the end of the world if it does, just have to pull it all the way through and re-run it. If you're like us you'll probably lose it under the boat about 10-15 times in the first couple months (maybe we're slow learners) but after that you'll get it right every time.

    I know there are a lot of people who will disagree and for sure there are times when a symmetric is better but at least for us, every time we used the new the A-sail on the old boat we kept saying to each other "why the hell should we ever use the symmetric kite again?" That first A-sail cost us a whole lot of money later on when we bought another boat. Go for it! You won't regret it.

  9. #9
    Hell - if you already have a spin pole - just use that if you want to rotate the assym back a bit.

    The gybe is a bit of a dance, but manageable. Basically pole forward, transition from the pole to that line off the anchor roller - then gybe kite, gybe pole, transfer kite back to pole.....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by The Flash View Post
    Hell - if you already have a spin pole - just use that if you want to rotate the assym back a bit.

    The gybe is a bit of a dance, but manageable. Basically pole forward, transition from the pole to that line off the anchor roller - then gybe kite, gybe pole, transfer kite back to pole.....
    I'm really late to this thread, by I added assy's to my inventory before the '12 Pac Cup. Like Flash(er) I fly them off of the pole, just above the pulpit and pull the pole aft. I consulted with Mr. Pegasus (PK) before I dropped the $$$ as he had gone assym on his SC70. He had the data that proved that assyms were faster for virtually any boat.

    Gybing has to be choreographed but once learned, it's easy...except for the new requirement for the bow to tend the lazy sheet and flip it over the donkey dick.

    Finally, don't settle for some sail designer's goofy idea of a flaccid 4" Donkey Dick at the tack. In this one case, length really does matter...the rest of the time your s.o. is lying. By the time we got to Kaneohe I think we had flossed the keel about half a dozen times.

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